Comments on On An Overgrown Path: The act of killing from 20,000 feet

While the NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization...

2006-08-14T21:50:00.000+01:00

While the NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 has done more than anything else to alienate large parts of Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union from "the West", it should also be recalled that the intention of the bombing [the so-called 'good intention'] was finally to stop the 'genocide' of Muslims by the Serbian State in the Balkan conflict and the dissolution of the Former Yugoslavia [it was the gravest incidence of genocide in Europe since 1945]. Bill Clinton acted after realizing that 'the West' and the U.N. had failed to stop the genocide occuring in Rwanda in 1994, which resulted in the deaths of over 800,000 Africans over a three month period.

Assuming that the plot had achieved its aims the n...

2006-08-13T12:45:00.000+01:00

Assuming that the plot had achieved its aims the number of dead would probably not have exceeded that in the Nato bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999. What's so "unimaginable" about that?

And they are talking of putting the North Atlantic Terrorist Organisation between Israel and Lebanon.

Further to US attitudes. My understanding is that ...

2006-08-12T09:22:00.000+01:00

Further to US attitudes. My understanding is that Eisenhower as commander of all forces on the ground in Europe wanted (needed) British Bomber Command resources 1944 onwards to attack active German military nearer the frontline and thought the so called 'strategic' bombing of German cities a serious misuse. His requests were turned down. 'Bomber' Harris was unreachable and presumably had some protection from Churchill. Correct me if I am wrong. I do not have authoritative sources to hand.

Returning to the current middle-east; attacks by air and long-range artillery. I heard Israel knocked out another power station this morning. That has potential for a lot of long distance casualties in the next weeks. Plesch in the Guardian yesterday recalled pragmatic value of the moral high ground. Yesterday I sent an email of support (not on pragmatic grounds - more a matter of keeping my own head/heart straight) to the Archbishop of York for his week long vigil and fast on behalf of peoples of middle-east. No mean feat if he has to pop out from the office every hour to light a candle and say a prayer, and sleeps in the old Minster. I belong to no religion but if I was near York I would pop in and lend a bit of moral support. The bishops email is office@bishopthorpepalace.co.uk . Nice place also for a concert I am told - somebody could perhaps combine the two together at short notice? Any suggestions?

Berend, you are correct, the US did not adopt 'are...

2006-08-12T07:25:00.000+01:00

Berend, you are correct, the US did not adopt 'area bombing' until late in the war, and for some time were opposed to the strategy.

But the third wave of bombers that attacked Dresden were in fact US. The 1st Division of the US 8th Army Airforce sent 678 tons of bombs and incendiaries to Dresden, although not all were dropped on the city, some were dropped on nearby Chemitz.

The US also used area bombing with dreadful results on the city centre of Tokyo, and Grayling cites this in his book.

How widespread are these apologies and when did th...

2006-08-11T22:24:00.000+01:00

How widespread are these apologies and when did they come into existence?

Weren't they invented much later? I remember reading somewhere that the US initially was quite aghast at the British bombing the civilians, but started doing it themselves after a while.

So it seems to me that initially this strategy had some acceptance, but perhaps the embarrassment wasn't invented until much later?

Phil, thanks for your comment and visiting the blo...

2006-08-11T13:48:00.000+01:00

Phil, thanks for your comment and visiting the blog.

I noticed you coming in via a Google search for Epsom Glyn Grammar earlier.

We must have been at that school at the same time, although I was several years below David Hemmings.

Strange how these overgrown paths converge, and Britten seems to be a constant presence on them at present.

I am glad you, pliable, reminded us of the suppose...

2006-08-11T13:33:00.000+01:00

I am glad you, pliable, reminded us of the supposed strategic targeting and justification for Dresden.
While working on the Continent a few years ago I became aware of the frisson that my name sometimes prompted - Harris and 'war criminal' came to mind, apparently.
I am not sure why you were so conservative about numbers. I tend to go with Vonnegut's 100K plus.
(BTW came to uour site by a very overgrown path this morning; I was at school with David Hemmings and remember his role with Britten.)

Berend, the apologists for the massacre in Dresden...

2006-08-11T13:28:00.000+01:00

Berend, the apologists for the massacre in Dresden, and as you know I am not one of them, would claim they did not intentionally target civilians.

Dresden was considered to be a strategic target because it was a railway hub used to move armaments to the eastern front. The raids were supposedly targeted at the railway marshalling yards to the west of the main railway station.

The horrendous civilian casualties were caused by a number of factors. The subways under the railway station were packed with sheltering refugees. This was where the heaviest casualties occured, and walking through those death chambers which have been restored as subways when I took a train to Berlin last year was one of the most chilling experiences of my life.

The raids also suffered from the known phenomena of 'bomb creep' where successive waves of bombs are dropped away from the marked target. And a failure in the marking of the targets at the start of the raid meant that the bombs were dropped on blazing buildings instead of on flares marking the railway target.

But whatever the apologists say the bomb tonnage dropped, the lack of defences, the huge refugee population, and the city's cultural importance make the bombing of Dresden a low-point of Western civilisation.

Is it true that "you did not intend that particula...

2006-08-11T10:18:00.000+01:00

Is it true that "you did not intend that particular child to die"?

Wasn't the actual intention to kill as many civilians as possible? The bombing was intentional and the civilian death was intentional.

That's quite different from our days where Western countries do not intentionally target civilians.

PS I completely disagree with Grayling's argument of course, but that isn't what I want to discuss.

And let us not forget the bombing of Hiroshima and...

2006-08-11T08:45:00.000+01:00

And let us not forget the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the 61st anniversary of which passed almost unnoticed last week.

Thank you to the ever relevant Renaissance Research for reminding us of another 'act of killing from 20,000 feet.'